- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
Google’s AI may replace traditional websites and content creators leading to potential monopolization and diminishing user experience - Mrwhosetheboss
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I’ve started getting those AI responses from Google now and I honestly skip right past them.
I fundamentally don’t trust the information so what’s the point of even reading it?
Have you considered not using Google?
Yes, but in my experience other search engines still give slightly worse results.
Kagi seemed good, but don’t wanna pay for it. Or at least not as much as they’re charging.
Startpage gives you the same google results, minus the AI responses.
this, twenty times
I like Ecosia, but we can agree to disagree.
I’ve been using Brave Search in the past few months and i can’t notice any difference in quality from Google in regular search.
The only difference I can’t notice is the quality in image searches.
Most of this AI stuff is trash. I think Google AI has maybe once given me a useful answer. Amazon has this thing called Rufus that just slows down the process of searching customer reviews. Just like Google, it’s maybe once or twice given me useful information and none of it worth the wait that it takes for the search results to come up.
But we are pouring billions into it and increasing our data center power usage by 10x because It’s The Future …
The problem is AI will always confidently give you an answer like its word is fact. Obviously since you’re the one searching, you’re most likely unable to verify its accuracy so it’s impossible to trust.
I dont mind AI being wrong when i can immediately tell when its wrong but in searches I’ll never trust it
That’s a very good point. Things like chat GPT can accelerate the process of doing something that takes time but a human knows when it’s done correctly. But in anything where finding truth is the goal, it shouldn’t be trusted yet.
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The AI responses are so incredibly bad.
I searched for a video game walkthrough that has a similar name to a movie, and it GAVE ME THE MOVIE PLOT.
What a shit show.
Well ideally you provide Google the feed to train their llm
Maybe because the person that ran yahoo search into the ground is now responsible for Google search.
Yup that’s the definitive answer
So you posted a 17 minute video instead of a five-word sentence
Link an article next time please!
The video is really interesting and more useful than that single sentence though.
It still contains about one minute’s worth of info in a 17 minute video though
If something is engaging, interesting, and entertaining, then it is far more likely to stick in your mind or teach you something new than a single sentence. This 17-minute video may do more to raise awareness of google search’s enshitification than any single sentence or minutes worth of info would ever have.
I dont disagree with you, but i dont think it matters. The video will help people.
Bingo. We have a winner
You found the marble in the oatmeal!!
Do I get to drink from the firehose?
We’re all drinking from the firehose right now
Sometimes I forget that google is a searching engine, I’ve been using DDG for years now! :)
The best thing about ddg is that I can click on any of the result links.
In google I have to skip like the first 3 rows because they are all tracking ads and my pihole blocks them 😁
Is Bing really that much better, though?
You can use a bang, !g , to get google results on ddg
That’s just Google with extra steps
I can’t say I’m liking DDG. The first page gives me the same domain links. Like when I search for “eye washing gifs”, the first three links is the same website. Where I’d expect it to give me three separate websites (and combine searches).
It does that for a few searches.
But then again, I’m not even liking Google.
have you tried searchpage or searxng? i think they use google (while searxng also use other search engines) beyond the scenes.
I’ve been dogfooding Searxng for a week or so now and I’m sold on it over DDG and certainly over Google. Besides good results out of the box and being selfhosted so I have some search privacy (sorta), you can tune it to get better results for your particular situation.
Setup was a quick docker compose and env file, and then add it to FF with a rightclick on the URL bar to set it up in my search engines.
i am using a public instance right now, might host one in the future. its just been two days since i started using it and i am still trying to get accustomed to it.
DDG does have its issues like giving me random news articles from my area if it cant find anything relevant…
Thanks for the suggestion. I’ve gotten fed up with trying to work with Google now. I’ve given up
Because - and this is a real thing, despite how baffling and utterly, obviously insane it is - the guy who now heads the Google search team is the very same guy who drove Yahoo search into the ground.
This is insane. Idk what google is thinking.
Google: “Well surely, he couldn’t tank TWO massive social media engines in one lifetime!”
Granted I’m jaded as fuck from only a decade and a half as a software engineer, but from where I’m standing, it’s pretty much all just c-suite circlejerking. Competent, incisive, effective, and ethical c-suite leadership that doesn’t focus primarily on finance matters is vanishingly rare these days.
I’m also a software engineer, but much earlier in my career and mostly having worked at small startups. But I hope some of the tech giants fall and make way for smaller players and innovation. But maybe that’s too optimistic.
I’ve got the same hope, buddy. It’s engineering; we solve problems. We just need to figure out how to unshackle ourselves from the hypercapitalists. Hopefully we can sort that out soon.
I just received a Kagi invite from a friend.
It’s absolutely great
Let’s hope they don’t look too closely at how family plans are shared for now.
10€ + taxes a month is just too steep for meThat’s the one thing keeping me from joining the Kagi train
As an alternative, you could try self-hosting searxng if you’re that way inclined.
Use Mojeek
What’s mojeek?
Mojeek is the only search engine that’s truly and absolutely free from the clutches of Big Tech.
The links are indexed from a crawler entirely built from the ground up, making it an alternative in the true sense.
Results are ranked based on input keywords alone.
No shady algorithmic manipulation.
No advertisements.
Also includes features like dark mode, location masking.
I’ve been using it for months. It’s an absolute delight!
Why have I never heard of this before?
Because it’s relatively new - just a year or two old.
They’ve actually been around for almost 20 years
Oh mama! 🤯 I’ve been living under the darkness of the googolcave for two decades!
Thank you JohnnyBravo! You a super cool guy! Just added this as a search engine in Firefox
You’re welcome! 😎
Whoa, mama!
Not totally true that its the only one, Brave search also has an indépendant index and (imo) works better.
There are many more, too, although the number of pages they index is widely variable. Here’s a list.
For the same reason it became more popular than other search engines in 00s. Those would give honest search results, Google would have various kinds of complex foolery approaching ML to give people what they wanted quicker.
One can say their corporate culture shows signs of overfitting for that situation. And not just theirs. In general those attempts to make products more competitive with even more complex foolery outside of the main functionality - are that.
Except when products are simply less usable for said main functionality, people use them less even if they don’t consciously realize that.
Also - what is Google in essence? It’s saying that some computing thing is too smart for you to run it at home or self-host it. It can only be done by the very smart and important people in companies with trillions in capitalization. And because you can’t, you are by some cultural taboo forbidden, to run it at home or self-host it, they get to manipulate results to make you give money to the people partnering with them.
We all know there’s nothing fundamentally or practically impossible in making a search engine. If we don’t have to cache pages, it’s actually easy.
The issue is in the service requirements. What the Internet needs is a technically transparent p2p market of services. Where storage and computing power can be transparently donated (or sold) just like in some countries you can sell power to the electric grid.
OK, I’ve described the magic wand. That’s the strategy. Tactics is for someone actually capable of conceiving the thing. LOL
When you go to search something and you literally have to type site:reddit.com at the end of it to get a human response it’s no wonder it’s falling apart
And reddit is locking shit up as we speak. These corpos about stole 30 years of the internet from us. There is not much recourse either they control pretty much all of the IP and infrastructure. So their way or highway.
Well there is fediverse for social media at least but it will long time to scale. Other sub sectors will probably need to explore similar models if people want to get away from being gang by 2-3 oligopolies in every market/service they need.
The search engine magic isn’t just about caching pages. It’s also extremely expensive / complex to:
- maintain an index of all the websites in the world. This is an extremely high cost
- refresh that index in almost real time. How long will your self hosted crawler take to find new content for every website in the world?
- there’s also the algorithm for weighing results. The order of results and their relevance is not easy at all. How many times a word appears on a page is a terrible metric.
A hosted search is also a lot more environmentally friendly - that gigantic search index and all the energy poured into the work is something that can be shared by everyone. If everyone did that themselves at home, you spend that same amount of energy for every single household.
“Almost real time” is not what I’d call necessary.
Weighting results - I’d expect user feedback (good result, bad result, combined with keywords from the request) would be good enough. Similar to ed2k for files’ reputation.
The index is going to be big, yes. But if we want a p2p system with split storage and computation, something between Freenet and Ceph, may be doable.
A hosted search is also a lot more environmentally friendly - that gigantic search index and all the energy poured into the work is something that can be shared by everyone. If everyone did that themselves at home, you spend that same amount of energy for every single household.
With some kind of such a p2p system I can imagine the overhead to be like 10 or maybe 100 times Google. But not what you said.
Because Enshittification
I’ve been experiencing this, but only when I’m not logged in to my Google account. It seems that they’re forcing people to log in so that the search results are less shitty.
Can anyone confirm this? Sounds like something exactly they would do for better data farming. All corps over last few years are offensive with browser tracking bullshit.
At this rate will demand a camera in your toilet to authenticate you every time you shit to ensure proper ad sense “fingerprint”
who’s to say the little black sensor on the public toilets aren’t already doing that?
I miss old mrwhosetheboss who was more technically knowledgeable. He was talking about android modifications like roms that he probably would never talk about today.
For the time being at least, there are options to still use the cleaner search results. For Firefox, this post walks through how to set it up: https://lemm.ee/post/42488635/14853159
Don’t think there’s any new info in the video.
Thats subjective though…
New to who?
