It’s lemmygrad, we’re the spectre. I’d bet at least half of the other instances out there block us, there’s only like 300 dedicated users on this instance, and they still can’t stop complaining about lemmygrad/tankies

  • ghostOfRoux();@lemmygrad.ml
    441·
    1 year ago

    It doesn’t help that there really is nuance in discussing previous and current socialist experiments but even that has practically become a meme and is met with “communism has never worked” commentary from liberals.

    • ImOnADiet🇵🇸 (He/Him)@lemmygrad.mlOP
      411·
      1 year ago

      Exactly, often times we just give up because liberals constantly make bad faith arguments, so we just respond with goofy “stalin did nothing wrong” memes

      • ghostOfRoux();@lemmygrad.ml
        221·
        1 year ago

        I’m actually working through some thoughts on how to even explain that there is bad and good in these systems. But unless you have a good understanding of history, theory, or even dialectics(which I don’t quite yet) it’s really tough to do without resorting to whataboitism. At least for me it is. A common point that I see brought up on the left, and I think it’s a good argument, but when the black book of communism number of 1 gorbillian dead get brought up, you can easily argue that you can calculate 100 million excessive deaths every 10 years in the US as a counterpoint but I think we can all agree that excessive deaths are bad regardless. Well unless they are fascists of course.

        • RedClouds@lemmygrad.ml
          171·
          1 year ago

          This was one of the hardest parts of my transition to socialism, finding good information that didn’t require a doctorates degree in history and/or philosophy. The S4A podcast has been running for years and is just now getting to the end of their “introduction to Marxism” series… Like, you can’t expect most people to do this…

          After buying a number of books I am making my way through them and they are fascinating. But it did require me to self-investigate and open my mind a lot, and read a lot, to decide to study further.

          The nuance is so strong and so many people have been taught bad information that it’s hard to even begin a good conversation, so we resort to jokes because at least we can get a laugh out of it. I’ve dumped walls of text, and gotten some good results, some bad results.

          I’ve been on the lookout for short/easy introductions that aren’t in-your-face-about-it (Worked for me, but not for everyone). There’s no reason to pander unnecessarily, but to provide reasoned arguments in short-form, to plant the seed of information that could bring someone out of their propaganda. I guess the biggest problem is just getting past the initial ichy feeling most people have when the word “communism” is thrown out.

          I think for me it started with just anti-capitalism, and US military actions that were obviously against our “core values”. But that’s not enough for everyone.

          • ghostOfRoux();@lemmygrad.ml
            81·
            1 year ago

            I am also working on a short list that I can recommend so once I am at home and can type them up we can compare notes maybe lol. I’m trying to find books that aren’t super dense but still cover all that needs to be to get the point across. For example, I had an easier time with Principles than I did with the Manifesto because Principles reads a lot like it was written recently. Still read the Manifesto tho, ya know?

            I’ve found myself also starting to attempt to explain things in simple terms and idk where that even came from. Understanding how Marx developed his ideas for Marxism from a philosophical perspective is crucial I think but damm is it tough at times.

            And yeah you can describe socialism or communism to quite a few people and not call it those words and they tend to jive with it but as soon as you drop the C or S word it’s all over. I work closely with a local Dem club where I’m at(I know still liberals but a lot of them seem to mean well, and a few of them do knowy views) but a few weeks ago socialism got brought up and 2 of these older dudes started in on how “socialism has never worked” and without skipping a beat one said we need to go back to aggressively taxing the super rich. Same set of people want M4A, affordable healthcare and school and all the other stuff and I’m like yeah that’s kind of socialism my dudes. And again, their is even nuance to what actually is socialism in that context but you get it.