I want to float what’s perhaps a controversial opinion to see what everybody’s thoughts on the matter are. The general consensus is to try and be polite at all times. However, I will argue that there are necessary limits to politeness and that it can be counterproductive at times.
When somebody makes a comment in good faith, I think it’s important to engage with it in good faith. If there is a disagreement then it can be articulated in a clear and polite manner. The hope is that the discussion will be productive and everyone will learn something in the process.
On the other hand, when comments are made with the intention of trolling then trying to engage them as if they were made in good faith only plays into the hands of the troll. Addressing the points that the troll makes as if they had merit implicitly validates these points as if they need to be debated.
In my view, the proper response to trolls is ridicule. They have to be called out for what they are and we should not take the bait to attempt starting a debate with them. Instead, it’s better to simply make it clear that the opinion is garbage and not worth discussing.
The argument against being snarky is that it can drive people away, but I don’t know that there is much weight to that in practice. Anybody who’s read Lenin can see that his writing is full of snark, and he often ridiculed opportunists and revisionists. Clearly that didn’t hinder the Bolshevik movement all that much.
I think it’s important for us to express confidence in our views, and to be assertive about our positions. The facts are on our side, and we don’t need to act as if our position is the one that needs defending.
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I think a good way of understanding this is that liberals have very few differences with fascists, but liberalism is normalised. You wouldn’t be polite or non violent with a fascist. They either go jailed and in a reeducation camp or dead in a coffin.
There are cases of ignorance and people need to be educated, but there are cases of ideological afirmation which do not deserve any good response or treatment.
I think, though, that personally, beyond of this point as a movement or whatnot, it hurts one psychologically and because of that it should not be followed. It triggers rage and it is not a good thing to live by. Lenin may have been snarky, but he didn’t exchanged letters with 20 politically analphabet liberals a day. I think blocking is better since you won’t even produce anything good with them any way.
I like to take a two-pronged approach to trolls when we have the numbers: one person responds in exaggerated good faith for the benefit of the audience, while the rest swarm like pirannha. I try to fill whatever role is unfilled in the moment. If it’s already a shitfest, I become Communism Morpheus, explainer of worlds. If someone is already explaining worlds, I become another harpy in the swarm. For them, arguing becomes like trying to do a math test while 10 people take turns snapping rubberbands at you.
I’ll go farther, I think that people hate the way liberals (and its always liberals) try to engage in goodfaith debate with shitheads and monsters.
Comments made with the intention of trolling must be dunked on, so that lurking readers can see we aren’t going to play their games.
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While they can try our patience at times, we should remember that since our goal is to create more communists, we should try to be courteous and engage respectfully. If not for their sake, then for everyone else on the sidelines who, seeing communists as diligent fighters for the betterment of all mankind, will come away realizing the communists have their best interests at heart.
Our ideals when engaging with liberals should be to follow the example of Fidel, Newton, Robeson, Liu Shiaoqi, Lenin (on his good days lol) and nameless others who knew how to engage with liberals, educating whilst not talking down to them.
Sure we all fail at this because our patience has its limits, but ‘dunk culture’ and alienating everyone you come into contact with, is something edgelords, ultralefts, and clout chasers / careerists strive for; not communists, and it’s not something to look up to.
I think Liu Shiaoqi, how to be a good communist, and fidel and newtons autobiographies really get this idea across well.
Edit, I agree with the two other posters here that recommended just reporting the trolls so admins can remove their comments. Nothing good comes from engaging with them in a negative way, but I also haven’t seen that hardly at all here: most of us still rightly use their trolling as an opportunity to educate them and others.
Online wise I really would rather have very aggressive removal of anything that would be thought of as trolling than snark
I generally agree, but speaking for me it depends on a few factors.
One is where I am posting. I don’t post exclusively on lemmygrad communities, and I am aware that if I am posting about politics on other instance communities will probably meet with a more hostile reception. I have even noticed lemmy.ml has definitely been drifting more and more liberal recently. I try to engage in good faith there when I can not necessarily because I expect to change their mind but other people may become interested (I even maintain a second account there just so people don’t instantly disregard everything I say because of my instance). Whereas the liberals who wander into lemmygrad communities are either there to actively troll or very very lost; there’s not much of an audience that needs convincing because a lot of the audience will be well…us.
Obviously there is the content too. If they are willing to argue in good faith I am more inclined to have a polite discussion. I think it is important we recognize the difference in people who are actually interested in discussion and those who are just couching their trolls in more polite language. I have definitely been fooled by people in the latter category before I realized they weren’t even reading my replies to them and just using a mask of respectability to sound more appealing.
Speaking personally, I remember back when I still identified as a socdem and hadn’t really read theory much yet. I remember checking out /r/genzedong /r/genzhou and /r/sino specifically because I heard they were horrible places, and I wanted to see why. Not only did I find that not to be the case, I found them to be very friendly and welcome for the most part. I probably would have become a socialist regardless of reddit as I actually read books, but it definitely didn’t hurt.
