Hello friends! Is there a lemmy community for roguelikes? I am, in this case, looking for a place focused on more traditional roguelikes (DCSS, CCDDA, BROGUE, etc)
If there isn’t one, no worries, send me you’re favorite unknown traditional roguelikes. I’ll tell you mine. It’s called “Empires of Eradia” it’s a more open combat focused RL with a unique twist on permadeath. It’s got great crafting and a strong focus on risk reward.
Not sure if it’s just me, but I find many games tedious (often because hunger and inventory management). Difficult games are just a different kind of tedious than filler games.
Shattered Pixel Dungeon is one, it does let you deal with things from many angles but I don’t think it’s good enough for unknown/cursed equipment. Especially as it’s so easy to get screwed over (especially early on).
I play the (old) free alpha of Rogue Fable III on itch. It has a completely different feel, a lot more going on mechanically (skills/attributes, terrain) so it at least somewhat feels like more my fault when I lose.
Either way we both know I’m probably going to lose with unused potions/scrolls even if I got a good sword, but I probably will not have gotten suitable armor etc. either. And when I win it seems like I either got perfect luck or I found a way to (borderline) cheese the game (which I mean sometimes that may be intended, but it doesn’t feel great to try again).
There is for sure some tedium in RLs. I think what finally caused them to click for me was to not focus as much on what items I need to win, but on what items (or play style) I needed to reduce the randomness. Watching people like Ultraviolent4 made me realize that often it’s about making better decisions, not the best decisions. Again, that may not be for everyone, but it was helpful for me at least.
I really liked SPD because it felt like I could (eventually) approach 100% win rate, and the bad luck just made things more interesting. In that game, it’s not about what you’ve got so much as when you use it; and careful tile movement. Playing each room like a chess game and not a dungeon crawler was a fun way to play.
Made a longer reply, won’t show up. I get how many strategies there are but even 50% seems impossible unless you’re doing spreadsheet stuff and making one game last an incredibly long time. And often the situation does not have many good options.
Though even if all equipment were identified (and other QoL stuff) it wouldn’t change actual difficulty much.
It does feel a bit chess-like but I feel like even 50% win rate is probably spreadsheet-level math or even digging into the code to understand mechanics better. Looking at the information given to the player, I am not sure how effective some perks are late-game especially (like the 1 point of shielding stuff), and even when trying certain classes it seems like one is usually objectively better (or at least more straightforward/reliable).
To me it seems more like blackjack because the card I uncover could allow more rounds (not unveiling it is a loss) or it could make me lose right then anyway. But it’s also a game of attrition so some actions seem to just delay the inevitable. Also 1 game already takes hours so I’d rather not prolong it.
If it were my choice, I’d add multiple ways to identify equipment organically(/one-offs, grouped) and more quickly rather than just only having scrolls/equipping (maybe even a new NPC that’d work based on what you sell to them)… similar with equipped cursed stuff (potion effects, something with shopkeeper, or some option to destroy cursed item). Sad ghost’s rewards would give info when picking OR it’d boost similar equipment (identify, de-curse, and +1) rather than giving you a dupe/lesser version. Situational ways to reveal things (such as the ability to use an unidentified scroll of rage at the sacrificial fire). Last unidentified potion/scroll should automatically identify (or allow you to do so via journal).
Information/curses aside, I’d make alchemize give free sales on shop floors (free energy conversion on alchemy pot floors). Crossbow would come with a few free darts (similar to 1+1 free)
It does feel a bit chess-like but I feel like even 50% win rate is probably spreadsheet-level math or even digging into the code to understand mechanics better. Looking at the information given to the player, I am not sure how effective some perks are late-game especially (like the 1 point of shielding stuff), and even when trying certain classes it seems like one is usually objectively better (or at least more straightforward/reliable).
To me it seems more like blackjack because the card I uncover could allow more rounds (not unveiling it is a loss) or it could make me lose right then anyway. But it’s also a game of attrition so some actions seem to just delay the inevitable. Also 1 game already takes hours so I’d rather not prolong it.
If it were my choice, I’d add multiple ways to identify equipment organically(/one-offs, grouped) and more quickly rather than just only having scrolls/equipping (maybe even a new NPC that’d work based on what you sell to them)… similar with equipped cursed stuff (potion effects, something with shopkeeper, or some option to destroy cursed item). Sad ghost’s rewards would give info when picking OR it’d boost similar equipment (identify, de-curse, and +1) rather than giving you a dupe/lesser version. Situational ways to reveal things (such as the ability to use an unidentified scroll of rage at the sacrificial fire). Last unidentified potion/scroll should automatically identify (or allow you to do so via journal).
Information/curses aside, I’d make alchemize give free sales on shop floors (free energy conversion on alchemy pot floors). Crossbow would come with a few free darts (similar to 1+1 free)
Oh yep I see the longer reply. Yes there was at least a month of reading the subreddit and wiki every day before I got to that level, but for me the learning was fun. Would not recommend spending all that time and energy unless it’s part of the fun. For people that watch streams, I’d expect there’s a good educational one, I don’t watch streams though.
More ways to identify is a good example; there’s several methods of explosion to destroy gear that isn’t +1: bombs, explode rune, dungeon trap. Custom rooms will guarantee one of the potions on the same level is the solution to that room. The number of strength potions per dungeon type is fixed (3?). The ? rune is good once you use that meta-info to increase your odds of a good potion guess. Wands are generally safer to ID, just don’t be on something flammable or water.
Wands are pretty overpowered, and you can recharge em by throwing them into an activated electricity trap, or the energy ring. The way rings become overpowered in their own way as you feed upgrades into them is another aspect of replayability.
I have won at least 5 times (with many losses) so basic knowledge isn’t my issue.
Potions/scrolls identification isn’t so bad (still a bit tedious), it feels like a puzzle (and can be to your advantage) even though I don’t really like the meta-ness of it. Wands identification is fine, except for when it curses your worn equipment. I also hate how some rewards can still be cursed.
Yep I take your points about tedious, your opinion is valid and I won’t get paid if you start playing again 😀 I always thought warrior was tedious though it got a little better when 1.0 came out. Enjoyed doing each of the challenges and then played a lot of TCPD, to feel like losing would be more likely than winning. Started duelist for the first time last week after not playing for 6 months, no challenges but it reminded me another thing I like; winning can be high probability but it’s never easy. I’ve rarely had a breeze, those can be fun but I enjoy the struggle.
For comparison, I started playing Slay the Spire this year (also on tablet). I don’t understand how people can win 100% of the time on that with even a few ascensions. Have not gotten past A2 at all. So I’ve stopped trying, but I love the daily climb challenge because they are always different and at my difficulty level.