I don’t encounter a lot of ads but I was just listening to the Economist talk about this one which the trump campaign played over and over again and it struck me as a small window of an answer to your question.

The ad strikes me as cruel but the thrust (and I imagine there’s a blend of fact and fiction) is that Harris used tax money to pay for a woman’s sex change after being convicted of first degree murder and serving life in prison. They also have Harris saying she was using her power to “push forward the movement and the agenda.”

Even for supporters of trans rights, I imagine not everyone loves having to defend using tax money to pay for expensive gender surgery, especially on criminals.

So I could see people, who might otherwise be supportive of trans folks in their own lives, being “against trans people” on an issue framed like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3BXYjoAzq0&ab_channel=TheJimHeathChannel

I just don’t think it’s as much of a random fad for kids as conservatives worry.

I agree. And the science might as well!

But I think Conservatives look at recent research, especially anything touching social sciences, as the product of what they view as an extremely liberal academic elite. Admittedly, I am similarly skeptical of most reports and analyses by the Heritage foundation and the like even when they share their methodology.

A charitable version of the conservative parent viewpoint might be something like “if my kid is genuinely trans, of course I’ll support them. But I am a parent and know best about how to protect them, even if it is from themselves.”

At the end of the day, I think a lot of conservative parents are opposed to the idea that government, or experts, or whomever could over-rule them about their own kids. Especially on a subject about which they probably feel somewhat uncomfortable.

I also don’t think religion is a requirement for close mindedness, though there is significant overlap.

I don’t know what the answers are!

A lot of this stuff is mostly at the state level which seems almost reasonable.

I imagine the big actual fight on this would come down to when are parents able to over-ride their kids wishes and vice versa. It’s a shitty battle for trans kids; if you don’t let them access medicine early, it puts them on a brutal path as you pointed out. But I also can’t imagine conservatives would be chill letting their kids alter their sex at such a young age. (From the parents’ perspective, what if this is just some teenage drama with lifelong repercussions?)

We don’t let kids get tattoos (and thank Christ for that, otherwise I’d probably have Wolverine fighting the Zerg on my chest or something) this seems bigger.

I dunno, like most real world issues, it’s tricky. And at the fun intersection of children and a rapidly changing perspective of gender, well damn, there are going to be some ugly fights.

If you’re at the point where you’re calling articles in ond of the most reputable papers on Earth “transphobic hit pieces”, you need go re-evaluate.

Edit: there’s a reason trump always screams about the crooked media for their crime of factual reporting.

I don’t think you’re unreasonable, you have more context than myself and any other casual North American sports fan who (shockingly!) hasn’t learned the points per game rates of Aussie rules footie. BUT, for most who have a casual understanding of sports, seeing someone a foot taller than their competition makes us go “huh, that seems wild.”

As we do when reading one of the most reputable papers in the world raising concerns about transgender health science methodology.

(For what it’s worth, in my personal experience of playing mid level co-ed rec league sports in a large liberal city for awhile, I’ve played against a few teams, mostly their trans player was the best woman on their team and by not a small margin. We don’t give a shit because, like I said, mid level co-ed rec league sports.)

The fact you feel compelled to “call out” someone trying to sincerely answer a reasonable question kinda speaks volumes.

I like your dream and fully agree on Harris.

Sadly (though I am admittedly a pessimist and would love to be wrong) I think the Left elites/party brass are coming to that realization on identity politics. But I dont think mainstream/cultural Left is and unfortunately, I think Right and centre Right curious voters view the political and cultural Left as the same.

You used the word “murdering” to describe a transgender woman playing sports with other women, despite her playing at a level comparable to them.

Oh come off it. Watch the video, she’s a damn head taller than almost everyone she’s playing against and God knows how many ppunds heavier.

If we don’t want to be the crazy side we have to come to terms with arguments about issues, even important ones, not being only good or evil.

You are misunderstanding.

Most reasonable, casual folks, who aren’t up on who Helen Joyce is or other trans poli sco lore, these are all fairly reasonable takes. The Economist is generally regarded as one of the most reputable papers around and for good reason.

I’ve also not presented my beliefs, just “here’s some pretty mainstream concerns.” I made that pretty clear in my opening statement (and pointed out that pretty much this exactly would happen.)

You’ve clearly encountered these arguments before (definitely didn’t watch the video which is fucking sympathetic). I’m not making these arguments.

I’m saying that reasonable people, who read one of the most reputable papers in the world can in fact have reservations on some trans issues. I can disagree with them but it’s not just bigotry.

I don’t recall posting about trans anything, can you refresh my memory?

Edit: Oh, it’s you! Are you making this assumption because I disagree with you and condemn the advocating of violence on republicans and democrats?!?

This is part of the thing. If we on the Left can’t have an honest discussion about things that do happen, then it is incredibly hard for anyone not already “on side” to take us seriously.

trans women being reassigned to women’s prisons and then assaulting the women etc https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/09/26/americas-growing-row-over-policies-for-transgender-prisoners “Tremaine Carroll, a transferred inmate serving 25 years to life for violent crimes, was charged with raping two women in ccwf and faces trial soon; Carroll denies the charges. In 2022 an inmate moved to Rikers Island women’s prison in New York received a seven-year sentence for attempted rape.”

This is a tricky issue, trans women in men’s prisons are also at risk. But to straight up deny these things happen and deny the existence of non transphobic concerns, well, that’s hard to take seriously.

a 6"2, 220lb woman practically murdering her handball oppoisition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SJYdXj7Kac&ab_channel=WilsonB9000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Mouncey

Murder was hyperbole, probably inappropriate. But damn, she is just so much bigger than her entire team and everyone on the opposition in all of those clips. (She also dominates in Aussie rules football.)

some fairly sketchy research practices by some of the authorities (WPATH) on the subject https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/06/27/research-into-trans-medicine-has-been-manipulated

The whole article is discomforting and worth reading. But, while WPATH (what is supposed to, and claims to be and independent science based organization) was creating their guidelines: “But an email in October 2020 from WPATH figures, including its incoming president at the time, Walter Bouman, to the working group on guidelines, made clear what sort of science WPATH did (and did not) want published. Research must be “thoroughly scrutinised and reviewed to ensure that publication does not negatively affect the provision of transgender health care in the broadest sense,” it stated. Mr Bouman and one other coauthor of that email have been named to a World Health Organisation advisory board tasked with developing best practices for transgender medicine.”

Again, I’m generally on board with trans rights etc but to say there aren’t issues just makes it that much harder to take us at face value.

There’s a reason conservatives campaign against “woke.” And most conservatives I know socially called the election a win against woke, even if they couldn’t exactly name a woke policy that Harris proposed.

The listing of the news/videos they may have seen?

I’m going to get all sorts of fun responses for trying to empathize with those with whom I disagree (instead of just writing “dumb bigots”) but here goes:

First, remember that even gay marriage is fairly new to America, it’s been around for less time than the MCU.

There are a lot of folks who almost have mental whiplash, gay marriage went from illegal to “you could get fired for being vocally uncomfortable about it” in fairly quick order.

Now, to make things even more wild for those folks, mainstream culture is pretty insistent that gender isn’t even a thing anymore. Add in some pretty wild news stories/videos*, worries for their kids and the notion that the Left refuses to say there might be any issues whatsoever and you can kinda see where a backlash could crop up.

• eg: trans women being reassigned to women’s prisons and then assaulting the women etc, a 6"2, 220lb woman practically murdering her handball oppoisition, some fairly sketchy research practices by some of the authorities (WPATH) on the subject etc.

I hope you’re right! I’m used to these kids online “Oh, I’d kick your ass” etc but threats of violence against republican and democratic leadership is spooky because there’s always that small chance that it’s actually an unhinged adult instead of an edgelord teen.

If you’re an adult saying that violence is the only solution because people don’t agree with you, that’s fucking terrifying.

Honestly, no trolling, if that’s what you sincerely believe to your core, there are all sorts of therapists. If you are an adult, odds are you have some sort of coverage that will help fund that. Otherwise, there are at least free resources.

That’s the kind of shit most folks grow out of by their 20s except for a dangerous few who go on to do horrific things (none of which have ever helped their cause outside of the basic goal of terrorism which is to make things worse for everyone.)

You need to accept this loss was a complete loss. There’s not going to be a righteous come back.

Kid, I get it feels like that. I remember being young and super upset about elections and thinking similarly but in retrospect, that was probably just the emotional rollercoaster of being a young teen and hey, I get you, that’s difficult. Especially with the world even worse now.

But, losing 51 to 49% in a time when almost every incumbent government has suffered shattering losses isn’t all that ridiculous, unexpected or an ominous harbinger of unavoidable doom. Deciding that it is such and making the only viable opposition party look even dumber though, well, that helps trump for next term.

Yes, trump will do a lot of damage. But, things can and hopefully will, get better. Remember, he was elected in 2016 and what happened the very next election?

I’d strongly suggest reading more about the world. It’s boring at first but it’ll give you perspective, context and understanding. (Or at least learn what a sunk cost is.)

Because I’m a functional literate adult and they are the best chance of making things better in America?

Throwing a temper tantrum in Congress isn’t going to help.

Voting in the primaries and moving the party to where you want it to be, does help!

And I’m mature enough to realize that not everyone will agree with my politics, so I’ll probably vote the farthest Left that I think can win their race, so as to not help Republicans.

This shit matters. While I’ll be fine pretty much no matter what, not everyone is so lucky. So, as a person with empathy, it’s important to think about what will help versus what is some stupid shit that would make me giggle but would be zero help (like your proposed electors nonsense.)

And the thing you are espousing is a stupid plan that doesn’t help change anything.

If republicans are that dangerous, don’t help them by throwing a pointless temper tantrum that erodes support.

This isn’t complicated kid.

Ahhh good “people won’t listen to the things I want so violence is the answer.”

When you’re espousing the same political philosophy as Al Qaeda, you should reassess.

That being said, I said some stupid shit when I was a kid too, hopefully you grow out of it and help us actually make things better.

Sad lol

This is why people have a hard time taking the left seriously.